Pro wrestling veteran PCO spoke with Fightful’s Sean Ross Sapp on a number of topics, including his issues with TNA management leading up to the incident at People vs. GCW.
PCO said, “Of course, I’m very upset at TNA’s new management, but I have to take full responsibility because I should have seen the red flags before, and I should have asked to get off my contract and ask for my release. I felt like I was in my comfort zone a little bit because this TNA roster is the best dressing room I was part of. No backstabbing, no crazy pranks. Such a nice locker room. The production team, their production is skating on thin ice. They do miracles with little. I like them a lot. Creative-wise, the creative team, I got along good with everybody. In 2024, I had the most wins on pay-per-view with Jordynne Grace and Moose with nine wins. That sounds crazy thinking that now I am talking to you without a contract with TNA. That’s out of the ordinary.”
On thinking of Slammiversary during the GCW moment:
“I go back to Slammiversary because I was trying to cut a promo after I smashed the belt with the sledgehammer and they were trying to take [the mic] away from me. I said I sold out the biggest house in TNA history, I want to say in Anthem history, since Hulk Hogan in 2012. That was the biggest house. Now, if you say TNA has their biggest house in Dallas, which I don’t think it was, it’s been announced as a partnership with WWE. So from now on, all the houses that grow bigger, it’s WWE. It’s not TNA anymore. It’s been announced they have a deal for three years.”
On fighting with TNA management over Slammiversary:
“I go back to Slammiversary, and every day I’m fighting with the new management about going from 2,000 people to 4,000 people. I cannot understand…the building cost the same, the security cost the same, the talent, flight, hotel, you can only increase your revenue. ‘Why aren’t we going to 4,000?’ They would come up with all kinds of excuses. ‘Usually when we get a great start, it flattens out. Usually this, usually that. When wrestlers promise a sell-out, they always do, but they never do. They always promise but never come across with the result.’ Before Slammiversary, when we booked the arena and date, I was in the office and I promised them, I shook their hands and gave them my word that it was going to be a sell-out. After the first day tickets were on sale, we had over 800 tickets sold. I said, ‘We’ll see how it keeps going.’ It kept going. When the timing was right, I felt to say that we’re going 4,000 people and a full arena. Now, we’re worrying about Sunday. ‘What if Sunday we have nobody?’ I had to fight for Sunday, on top of selling out Saturday. It was always a fight. ‘When we get more tickets sold on Sunday, then we’re going to open up.’ By the time you open up, you lose the buzz because there is a timing for everything. The timing was right. Not because I told them the timing was right, but I was hear during every TV and radio show and taking the pulse of how the people felt, and I knew what was the right timing to say, ‘We’re going full house,’ that was going to create an extra excitement. They might have waited another three weeks after I was telling them to go to a full house because they were worried about Sunday. We went to the [Montreal] Alouettes games and we were doing something with the mascot just before the game, and it was on TV. I was talking with the TNA PR guy and he said, ‘You cannot clothesline the mascot.’ I told him, ‘Yes, I do clothesline the mascot. I’ve been working with the Alouettes a long time.’ ‘You’re going to turn heel if you do that.’ ‘No, I know my market. Believe me.’ When I clotheslined the mascot, and almost took off his head, the whole stadium started to chant ‘PCO! PCO!’ That was the greatest feeling ever. I was telling him, ‘I know the market here. It is different from other markets.’ From the buzz from the Alouettes game, I was telling the PR guy, ‘You don’t hear the excitement of the people involved?’ That’s where I’m talking about red flags. I felt like I had no help and that I was kind of left alone and it was hard to get something. I asked for radio [appearances] and they said, ‘We don’t believe in radio. We believe in social media.’ ‘I see traffic every morning because I’m in the traffic. People are listening to something.’ Eventually, we did the press conference and it was a hell of a house. We always lose a little bit of an atmosphere with the production. If you’re there in person, it was double what you heard on pay-per-view. It was the first time in a while that I had seen so many journalists from the movie industry or shows, all kind of comedians, radio and TV hosts. It was good. They acknowledged the fact that I worked hard, but it was a struggle and fight every day.”
On saying that he sould out the the biggest house in TNA:
“When I say, ‘I’ve sold out the biggest house in TNA,’ I don’t mean I put my name on the marquee and it sold out like that. I meant, I worked for that. I probably got two or three hours of sleep per night. I went all over the province of Quebec, which is big. I did every little place and we did contests and drawings. I did meet and greets, football, soccer, basketball, radio shows, on region and in Montreal itself. When I say I sold it out, that’s what I did, because I worked my ass off. Not because I’m a marquee name… They gave me a bonus and I said, ‘That’s cool. With that bonus, I’ll be able to pay the team that helped me do the work.’ I was able to give money to people that helped me sell out the arena.”
On talking with TNA about his contract for 2025:
“In November, we go to Fayetteville, NC for TV tapings. I see the Vice President, and we’re talking about my contract for 2025. ‘Yes. Yes Carl, for sure, we will re-sign you.’ I laid down the foundation and I said simple and clear, ‘I’ll be happy with the same salary and same conditions at 2024. For the inflation, maybe bump me to better seats on my flight.’ He said, ‘Yeah, sure, sure, sure.’ I said, ‘Just work on the contract and send it to me and I can sign it and return it to you.’ On [November] 29, it was WrestleCade. I had to miss WrestleCade because I had family personal issues that were really serious and bad. I couldn’t go to WrestleCade, and I got a text message from them, ‘Just called to check in. Missing you at WrestleCade. Hope everything is well with the family.’ Nice message like that. I was pretty confident. The last show of the year, Final Resolution, I called before and said, ‘What about the contract?’ They said, ‘We’ll discuss that on [December 13] in Atlanta.’ I get to Atlanta and see everybody coming in and out of the office. I see some people quitting, and it seems to be like a tough day. I walked in, they told me what we discussed in Fayetteville, ‘We can’t do that anymore. It’s going to be a different deal.”
On TNA changing the deal:
“They changed it. We had already shook hands on it. I’m very old school. A handshake, you give me your word and look me in the eye, for me, it’s a done deal and a promise, especially if you said, ‘I promise.’ I’m surprised, but I’m listening. I can’t believe what they’re changing the deal to, with the new one. I said, ‘I don’t think I can accept that, but I’m going to think about it tonight. I’ll be back with my answer tomorrow. One thing is for sure, I would like for you to give me your word….’ it was something not about money. I cannot disclose what it is. I said, ‘I need you to help me out with those papers. It has to be signed by the company. They said, ‘Of course, Carl, with everything you’ve done. Montreal and everything.’ That was just for the extension for me to go drop the title on the [January] 23rd in San Antonio [TV tapings]. That was just on the promise, besides the money. I shook hands with them and they promised me. Big promise that they were going to take care of that. I worked that night and came back for the next TV taping. It was the pay-per-view, even though my head was not all there. On Sunday, before going to the ring, I said, ‘I’m willing to lower my money and be paid for all the shows throughout the years.’ Yeah. They said, ‘It’s important for you to be on.’ I said, ‘Yeah, TV equals money too. It’s a good production and I’d like to be featured on the show. You’ve been taking care of me well and I’m hopeful that 2025 will be as good.’ We shook hands, again, and that was the third time, plus the other side promise from the day before. We were cool for 2025 for a full deal now, a whole year, and I took a paycut.”
On being told that TNA was pulling his deal due to medical concerns:
“Another time, I did a dive through the ropes and I banged heads with Jake Something. I got opened up, but I finished the match, did my moonsault, everything worked out good. Me and Jake talked. The physician of the company came up to me and said, ‘You need to go to the hospital for stitches.’ I told him, ‘No. Just put super glue. I’ve been putting super glue for the last four years. Nobody said anything.’ That night, they wanted me to get stitches. They put super glue, and after I showed pictures of how I healed up and everything was good, I was asked to go pass a medical. Why Jake didn’t have to pass medical, but myself, because I needed stitches, I needed medical. Things were starting to go kind of wrong. I was trying to get back to my sense, but they were pulling my luggage, ‘Let’s go. Get in the ambulance.’ I got in the ambulance and did everything on my own. I went through the CAT scan gimmick and while I was lying there, they checked everything and it was positive and good. They checked my cervical, my head, my neck, and my spine. It came out clear. The doctors said everything is good, ‘You can go back to work tomorrow.’ I sent [TNA] the results by text message, we took a picture of all of the reports. Never thought about it after that. December 19, I get a text message, ‘Are you free for a Zoom call?’ I got on a Zoom call at 3pm, and they said, ‘After discussing with our physician, we decided to pull off all the deals. There is no deal.’ ‘What about my paper? You promised me.’ I went to see a neurologist in Montreal and I know everything was fine. They pulled out, and I don’t know why. We had the deal when I was going to extend, but now that the deal was up, they still wanted me to extend, but I had nothing in return to extend. ‘Everything promise you made is worth shit. Why should I go to San Antonio now? You’re breaking the deal. I’m not breaking the deal.’”
On his appearance at The People vs. GCW:
“I booked myself for GCW and I wanted to say something. I didn’t know what I was going to do, but this is how I felt. Anger, I would say. I should have asked for my release after Slammiversary, but I liked everybody so much. I think that’s the reason I didn’t ask for my release. I could have never seen the curveball coming. I could never imagine in a million years. It took me by surprise. I was able to live with certain things, but there were some promises made that I was not able to. There are a lot of things that I cannot say on the medical side. I have my point of view and I’m very disappointed with how everything was handled by the new management. I said Scott D’Amore was the architect of the locker room, the production team, the launching of TNA, and I felt like they ran on his gas and they ran with it because they had great talent, but eventually, two writers; Jimmy Jacobs and Robert Evans left for AEW. Some other people start leaving. You could see that maybe something was wrong, but you always hope you can make it right. I felt like it was justified on my behalf because they know how driven I am. They know that if you put an obstacle in front of me, I’m going to go through them. How passionate I am for this business and how much I want to succeed. I’m not just a piece of carpet you can walk on. I felt I had to stand up for myself.”
On having little communication with TNA after his deal was pulled:
“After they pulled everything, me and Tommy Dreamer had a conversation on December 27, a Rhino show in Detroit, I did everything there, all my crazy stuff, tore the house down. After that, me and Tommy had a discussion. I texted the Vice President about an idea. Even if I texted them, they said, ‘We’ll talk to you next week and we’ll figure out things.’ I still had no communication. After the 19th, I sent one text message, got a text back saying, ‘We’ll talk next week,’ and we never talked. All the way to my day at GCW, I had no talk about the 23rd in San Antonio. I thought, ‘That’s enough BS.’”
On the decision being a last-minute one of his:
“Yes, it is. I don’t think they expected me to say something. Maybe in their mind, they expected, but there was still no communication from them, so they probably knew I was going to say something. When you talk to friends, it’s a small world, and maybe they have words, ‘He’s going to do something.’ This thing just came out of the blue and was a last-minute thing, deciding to put the sledgehammer to the belt. When we were discussing Montreal, the International Title, to me, was the main title I was fighting for because there is so much lineage since 1932 with Lou Thesz, Billy Robinson, Dino Bravo, Rick Martel, Mad Dog Vachon, Abdullah The Butcher, Huka, Samu, and on and on until PCO. They were supposed to make the International Title a TNA title and keep the lineage, and I was proud of that. Here we are six months later, and they still haven’t done it. I asked them and they said, ‘It takes time to do those things, Carl.’ Okay, six months, it takes time. They did another belt in less than four days for Steph to have won in the divorce. If that’s all my divorce is going to cost me, the title, that’s alright. It’s not a very expensive divorce for someone in the business. They spin their wheels fast enough to get another belt in four or five days. ‘It takes time to do those things, Carl.’ I thought the title looked good on the 23rd.”
On being criticized over the matter:
“I had people attacking me about drawing the house. ‘Yeah, TNA gave you a platform.’ I worked my ass off for that platform. IIgot attacked on Twitter, ‘Yeah, he turned down AEW three times.’ I just couldn’t make it. I respect TNA too much and I have a huge respect for Scott D’Amore. It was different management. It takes time to get to know somebody. It took a year to get to know the new management. I was very disappointed at the end.”
On what else he wants people to know about the matter:
“I want them to know that I did what I had to do. I have no regret about it. I feel very good about this. People bought tickets to St. Louis to come see me. It’s not my fault if I’m not there. I had a lot of people swearing at me, ‘I bought tickets for you and you’re not going to be there. You smashed that belt.’ Don’t judge anything before you know the facts. I feel I’m in great shape, super health, and feel good to go for a great run. We’ll stop when we get there, not before. Tremendous support by a lot of fans. I’m touched.”
You can check out PCO’s comments in the video below.
(H/T to Fightful for transcribing the above quotes)
